ok thanks. is it a big stretcher when flipped 

i would say with the training i do bout double n size i use tomato cages work great 4 that plant i may find a picture of it if i do will post it it will b a walk n the park 4 u dog u all ways have great grows ....                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    PS they like a little abuse don't under stand it but they love the lst brother